TonyPizza
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TonyPizza
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DrownedInTrance
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Boah das Video macht mich fertig .. Also ich kann alle Moves die er macht wirklich sehr gut nachvollziehen, hätte ich ähnlich gemacht, ABER bis zum Schluss waren noch 2 Resonanzen drin die mich innerlich richtig unruhig gemacht haben, die eine zieht er ganz am Ende noch raus zum Glück aber die letzte (irgendwo bei 400 Hz I guess) nicht (wobei er ja sagt es sind noch 2 Sachen die ihn stören, vielleicht macht er das ja später noch). Das ist sooo unbefriedigend, OCD ist auf jeden Fall hart getriggert bei mir.
EDIT: Sind aber ansonsten echt gute Sachen bei in deinem Kompendium. Vielen Dank dafür.
Danny-BSF
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Finde Robbs VLogs ein bissl anstrengend.. Hab nur durchgeskipt. Sieht nach Demoaufnahme aus. Hast du was deuten können?
NuckChorris
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Endlich mal ein Fred mit Mehrwert. Danke dafuer.
TonyPizza
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Fisches Interview mit Sneap auf Waves.com
Metal Mixing: The Big Four
Let’s talk mixing. When you mix, do you work with templates or have any sort of procedure?
I tend to mix all the drums first, move onto guitars, bass, then vocals. I’ll keep working around all the songs in an album so I don’t get bored, which also helps to create a more balanced feel between the songs. If I get something I’m really digging, I’ll import it into any song that I think it’ll work in. So it’s not really templates as such, but the mix will speed up as it goes along.
I tend to work in the box for the first part of the mix, get everything to a good point, and then route out through my SSL desk and play with some outboard toys for the final part of the mix.
What are the top four things you think anyone mixing metal should pay attention to?
The vocal, the low end, and what I would call ‘details’ in both the guitars and the drums. The two hardest things to get right, I always say, are the low end and the overheads, probably because they’re both so dynamic.
What’s your basic approach to the vocal?
I like the vocal to always be fully audible, not buried. I want to be able to picture the singer singing, even to the point where it might almost be too loud. I’d rather that as opposed to too quiet. Vocal Rider can work great on helping give vocals that extra bit of clarity while keeping them on top of the mix. Other tools I like using on vocals are the Doubler, which is [Testament vocalist] Chuck Billy’s go-to harmonizer, and the Butch Vig Vocals plugin for adding a bit of edge to a vocal.
Mixing the Low End
How about your top tips for the low frequencies?
I have a little trick for low-end guitars, especially if there are several guitars – let’s say four guitar tracks – and they’re getting a bit lumpy in the lower-mids around 135 Hz to 200 Hz. I’ll take the C4 compressor, use the ‘Too Much Limiting’ preset, switch only the second band in, and tickle the guitars so it’s just ducking them when they hit a low chug hard. The F6 dynamic EQ can do the same thing also, just dynamically ducking that area.
I also tend to use the C4 comp on the bass DI before I re-amp, so that it’s pinning everything before the amp – it keeps the pick attack a lot more in control.
One more thing to think about when mixing heavy music is that the speed of the song determines what the low end is like – if the song is slower, I’ll want the low end to be heavier.
Anything more specifically for the bass guitar? Is it true you always record it last and then pitch-shift it?
Yes, I record bass usually after guitar as it helps fit the tone in. Regarding the pitch-shift, bass players often hit sharp when they dig in, so subtle use of a pitch correction plugin – for example Waves Tune – is a good way to keep the bass in tune. I do that after tracking, but only if the bass gets out of tune, pushing sharp with the hit.
Mixing Drums
Do you mix the drums differently when you work with different bands and different drummers?
The music definitely determines the mix. Exodus have searing guitars, so the drums have to fit in with that. On Testament’s The Gathering, Eric [Peterson] used Mesa Boogies for his guitar, so Dave Lombardo’s drums had to gel with the guitars in that thicker kind of way. In Obituary, the drums are tuned super-low and slappy, so right there it gives you a character for the mix.
The trick is to adopt the band’s approach but give it your stamp – balance the band’s tone with your style of mixing.
Your projects are known for a clear, clean drums sound: you can hear every component of the drums, crystal clear and with definition. In your book, is leakage or mic bleed a nasty word?
No, not at all; but I do like to have control. So if cleaning up a ride track helps with the snare phase, or if editing a china track allows you to make it pop in the mix, sometimes that’s the only way to do it.
Which tools do you use to process the drums in that respect? Do you heavily gate them to avoid unwanted bleed?
I do all of that manually; I’ll sit here for hours cleaning tracks up. The L2 Ultramaximizer, the C4 compressor and the F6 dynamic EQ are all tools I use to help the cymbals come out where the snare is too dominant. Sometimes the L2 can just stick it back in the mix enough, but it’s worth trying to limit the 400 Hz range if you’ve got something boxy happening – especially if the drums have been tracked in a low room and you’ve got snare coming back off the ceiling.
Could you give us some tips on how you use reverb on drums in metal production?
I’ll automate the decay and amount and sometimes add a bigger snare or door-slam tom hits to add dynamics on sections. I’ll have an additional verb on toms as well – a tiled room or plate to add a bit of body and slap; something like H-Reverb works great for that.
Mixing Guitars
Let’s get to guitars – do you sometimes pick the amps and/or amp modulation tools for the band, or does the band or the guitar player always choose them?
It’s a joint effort. If the band has a set sound and rig they’ve been using it’s fun to try something new. Usually you find the pro guys are very dialed in and have great gear.
How about guitar gear – it’s no secret that you love the 5150s. Any other amps that caught your attention lately? Have a go-to guitar cabinet these days?
I have a ton of stuff. I really like the Fender 5150 and I have all my old 80s Marshalls that have been re-tolexed, sealed and refitted with V30s by the guys at Marshall. Those things sound so solid. I also have an oversized, ported Krank cab with 8 ohm V30s, which records really well. I recently went back to all my old Marshalls and got them re-tubed. The 800s still sound raging in the right hands and the JVM is pretty good too.
Is it true you sometimes use guitars that were tracked by the band members at home?
With home recording setups getting better and better this happens quite a lot now. I did that with Exodus – for Blood In Blood Out [guitarist] Gary Holt recorded all his guitars himself. I’ve done A LOT of what I call ‘ghetto’ recordings with the Exodus guys. They like to keep things cheap! We’ve rented houses in the middle of nowhere and made the biggest racket. Lots of fun. Portable rig, a laptop, bunch of mics and off we go. Sleeping in the same room as the gear, the band cooking the cheapest food they can get. Some of the best times I’ve had recording in the last 20 years.
When they track bits on their own at home I’ll just instruct them on what I need. It’s easy these days with video chats.
Another secret weapon I like using is the Q-Clone EQ capture plugin. It came in useful on the last record I did with Machine Head, when we had to give a Massenburg GML 8200 [hardware equalizer] back to its rightful owner, but we could still use those 8200 tones through the Q-Clone.
What’s your view on re-amping guitars and using virtual amps vs. playing straight from the physical cabs? Do you do both?
I've used Waves GTR on bass quite often; there are a couple of settings with great low end in there. I always record a DI just in case. It baffles me when people don’t do that – why wouldn’t you?!
If you take both a mic signal and a DI, what are your tips on mixing the original guitar/amp with the re-amped signal?
I don’t often mix the two, but when I do something like the InPhase plugin would be the way to go. A lot of times, especially with re-amping, I’ll put a click on the DI before the track then line up by sight (because of latency) to avoid phase issues.
When you record and mix on a tight schedule, what about the guitars – or any instrument, really – do you insist on getting 100% right during the recording session, and which things do you decide that you will be able to solve later in the mix?
Guitar tone can be sorted in the mix, it’s the performance that really has to be right. So it’s first of all about capturing the attitude and song. By the way, that’s why live versions can be so cool sometimes: the band has been playing those songs solid for weeks or months, so they’re more rehearsed than when they went into the studio to track them!
We’ve talked about mixing, but if you were now a beginner sound engineer with a low budget, what would be the first things you’d spend your money on?
Probably the computer, then monitors, then preamps. You get what you pay for, but I think there’s a lot of added hype around gear. I did some great recordings with SM57s, a Mackie board and ADATs. I’ve never been a gear snob – almost the opposite, actually. I quite like the challenge of making things work; you discover tricks. I think it’s important to get out in the real world too, to find a rehearsal space and offer to record bands for free, have some fun being creative. You’ll learn quickly from your mistakes, and if you are any good, word will get around.
Finally, are there any artists you haven’t worked with yet that you’d like to?
Slayer would be fun – I always have a nice chat with [Slayer guitarist] Kerry King when I see him but they’ve already got their go-to guys, as have most pro bands. I’m a bit of an old-school guy, really, so it’s always fun to work with the classic, more established bands.
Metal Mixing: The Big Four
Let’s talk mixing. When you mix, do you work with templates or have any sort of procedure?
I tend to mix all the drums first, move onto guitars, bass, then vocals. I’ll keep working around all the songs in an album so I don’t get bored, which also helps to create a more balanced feel between the songs. If I get something I’m really digging, I’ll import it into any song that I think it’ll work in. So it’s not really templates as such, but the mix will speed up as it goes along.
I tend to work in the box for the first part of the mix, get everything to a good point, and then route out through my SSL desk and play with some outboard toys for the final part of the mix.
What are the top four things you think anyone mixing metal should pay attention to?
The vocal, the low end, and what I would call ‘details’ in both the guitars and the drums. The two hardest things to get right, I always say, are the low end and the overheads, probably because they’re both so dynamic.
What’s your basic approach to the vocal?
I like the vocal to always be fully audible, not buried. I want to be able to picture the singer singing, even to the point where it might almost be too loud. I’d rather that as opposed to too quiet. Vocal Rider can work great on helping give vocals that extra bit of clarity while keeping them on top of the mix. Other tools I like using on vocals are the Doubler, which is [Testament vocalist] Chuck Billy’s go-to harmonizer, and the Butch Vig Vocals plugin for adding a bit of edge to a vocal.
Mixing the Low End
How about your top tips for the low frequencies?
I have a little trick for low-end guitars, especially if there are several guitars – let’s say four guitar tracks – and they’re getting a bit lumpy in the lower-mids around 135 Hz to 200 Hz. I’ll take the C4 compressor, use the ‘Too Much Limiting’ preset, switch only the second band in, and tickle the guitars so it’s just ducking them when they hit a low chug hard. The F6 dynamic EQ can do the same thing also, just dynamically ducking that area.
I also tend to use the C4 comp on the bass DI before I re-amp, so that it’s pinning everything before the amp – it keeps the pick attack a lot more in control.
One more thing to think about when mixing heavy music is that the speed of the song determines what the low end is like – if the song is slower, I’ll want the low end to be heavier.
Anything more specifically for the bass guitar? Is it true you always record it last and then pitch-shift it?
Yes, I record bass usually after guitar as it helps fit the tone in. Regarding the pitch-shift, bass players often hit sharp when they dig in, so subtle use of a pitch correction plugin – for example Waves Tune – is a good way to keep the bass in tune. I do that after tracking, but only if the bass gets out of tune, pushing sharp with the hit.
Mixing Drums
Do you mix the drums differently when you work with different bands and different drummers?
The music definitely determines the mix. Exodus have searing guitars, so the drums have to fit in with that. On Testament’s The Gathering, Eric [Peterson] used Mesa Boogies for his guitar, so Dave Lombardo’s drums had to gel with the guitars in that thicker kind of way. In Obituary, the drums are tuned super-low and slappy, so right there it gives you a character for the mix.
The trick is to adopt the band’s approach but give it your stamp – balance the band’s tone with your style of mixing.
Your projects are known for a clear, clean drums sound: you can hear every component of the drums, crystal clear and with definition. In your book, is leakage or mic bleed a nasty word?
No, not at all; but I do like to have control. So if cleaning up a ride track helps with the snare phase, or if editing a china track allows you to make it pop in the mix, sometimes that’s the only way to do it.
Which tools do you use to process the drums in that respect? Do you heavily gate them to avoid unwanted bleed?
I do all of that manually; I’ll sit here for hours cleaning tracks up. The L2 Ultramaximizer, the C4 compressor and the F6 dynamic EQ are all tools I use to help the cymbals come out where the snare is too dominant. Sometimes the L2 can just stick it back in the mix enough, but it’s worth trying to limit the 400 Hz range if you’ve got something boxy happening – especially if the drums have been tracked in a low room and you’ve got snare coming back off the ceiling.
Could you give us some tips on how you use reverb on drums in metal production?
I’ll automate the decay and amount and sometimes add a bigger snare or door-slam tom hits to add dynamics on sections. I’ll have an additional verb on toms as well – a tiled room or plate to add a bit of body and slap; something like H-Reverb works great for that.
Mixing Guitars
Let’s get to guitars – do you sometimes pick the amps and/or amp modulation tools for the band, or does the band or the guitar player always choose them?
It’s a joint effort. If the band has a set sound and rig they’ve been using it’s fun to try something new. Usually you find the pro guys are very dialed in and have great gear.
How about guitar gear – it’s no secret that you love the 5150s. Any other amps that caught your attention lately? Have a go-to guitar cabinet these days?
I have a ton of stuff. I really like the Fender 5150 and I have all my old 80s Marshalls that have been re-tolexed, sealed and refitted with V30s by the guys at Marshall. Those things sound so solid. I also have an oversized, ported Krank cab with 8 ohm V30s, which records really well. I recently went back to all my old Marshalls and got them re-tubed. The 800s still sound raging in the right hands and the JVM is pretty good too.
Is it true you sometimes use guitars that were tracked by the band members at home?
With home recording setups getting better and better this happens quite a lot now. I did that with Exodus – for Blood In Blood Out [guitarist] Gary Holt recorded all his guitars himself. I’ve done A LOT of what I call ‘ghetto’ recordings with the Exodus guys. They like to keep things cheap! We’ve rented houses in the middle of nowhere and made the biggest racket. Lots of fun. Portable rig, a laptop, bunch of mics and off we go. Sleeping in the same room as the gear, the band cooking the cheapest food they can get. Some of the best times I’ve had recording in the last 20 years.
When they track bits on their own at home I’ll just instruct them on what I need. It’s easy these days with video chats.
Another secret weapon I like using is the Q-Clone EQ capture plugin. It came in useful on the last record I did with Machine Head, when we had to give a Massenburg GML 8200 [hardware equalizer] back to its rightful owner, but we could still use those 8200 tones through the Q-Clone.
What’s your view on re-amping guitars and using virtual amps vs. playing straight from the physical cabs? Do you do both?
I've used Waves GTR on bass quite often; there are a couple of settings with great low end in there. I always record a DI just in case. It baffles me when people don’t do that – why wouldn’t you?!
If you take both a mic signal and a DI, what are your tips on mixing the original guitar/amp with the re-amped signal?
I don’t often mix the two, but when I do something like the InPhase plugin would be the way to go. A lot of times, especially with re-amping, I’ll put a click on the DI before the track then line up by sight (because of latency) to avoid phase issues.
When you record and mix on a tight schedule, what about the guitars – or any instrument, really – do you insist on getting 100% right during the recording session, and which things do you decide that you will be able to solve later in the mix?
Guitar tone can be sorted in the mix, it’s the performance that really has to be right. So it’s first of all about capturing the attitude and song. By the way, that’s why live versions can be so cool sometimes: the band has been playing those songs solid for weeks or months, so they’re more rehearsed than when they went into the studio to track them!
We’ve talked about mixing, but if you were now a beginner sound engineer with a low budget, what would be the first things you’d spend your money on?
Probably the computer, then monitors, then preamps. You get what you pay for, but I think there’s a lot of added hype around gear. I did some great recordings with SM57s, a Mackie board and ADATs. I’ve never been a gear snob – almost the opposite, actually. I quite like the challenge of making things work; you discover tricks. I think it’s important to get out in the real world too, to find a rehearsal space and offer to record bands for free, have some fun being creative. You’ll learn quickly from your mistakes, and if you are any good, word will get around.
Finally, are there any artists you haven’t worked with yet that you’d like to?
Slayer would be fun – I always have a nice chat with [Slayer guitarist] Kerry King when I see him but they’ve already got their go-to guys, as have most pro bands. I’m a bit of an old-school guy, really, so it’s always fun to work with the classic, more established bands.
TonyPizza
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^^Ist natürlich ein Waves PromotionDingens, einfach die Waves Plugins durch PluginXY ersetzen dann gehts 
Glutamatjunkie
TonyPizza
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Hab ich doch oben alles raus kopiert!
Glutamatjunkie
Au Backe, voll gepennt. Sorry
Danny-BSF
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Neues Machine Head Album schimpft sich Catharsis und kommt wohl 01/2018.
Wird wieder in den Sharkbite-Studios aufgenommen. Als Fan von TTAOE und Blackening bin ich sehr gespannt.
Denke mal es wird wieder nen Making of, oder zumindest nen Vlog von Rob geben.
Wird wieder in den Sharkbite-Studios aufgenommen. Als Fan von TTAOE und Blackening bin ich sehr gespannt.
Denke mal es wird wieder nen Making of, oder zumindest nen Vlog von Rob geben.
Andaraginga
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Grad zufällig drübergestolpert.
Quasi der Typ, der sagt, alle (Ola + Spectresounds...) machen es so, aber mir gefällt es nicht und deshalb mach ich es anders.
Video und Erklärungen sind ziemlich langatmig. Ab 5:23 (solo) und 14:08 (Mix) lässt er dann endlich mal hören wie sein Basssound klingt.
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TonyPizza
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Jup, den Typ hab ich tatsächlich auch abonniert. Er hat ja recht, aber auch gleichzeitig nicht. Man kann nie etwas pauschal anwenden, das ist doch das oberste Gebot
MountainKing
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Ich bin über Adam Bentley gestolpert.
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2mmoNJdCXCSzoaLS2soWiA/videos
Das ist jetzt wohl kein Hochkaräter, aber ich finde seine Video ziemlich auf den Punkt. Kann man auch als jemand, der noch nicht soo viel Erfahrung hat schon mal ganz gut umsetzen. Der macht gar nicht viel, aber die Ergebnisse können sich hören lassen, wie ich finde.Und immer wieder der Comp aus dem Metric Halo ChannelStrip....
Hier ein paar Beispiele (es gib noch mehr, das ich auch nicht angeschaut habe):
Drums:
Bass:
Guitar:
Vocals:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC2mmoNJdCXCSzoaLS2soWiA/videos
Das ist jetzt wohl kein Hochkaräter, aber ich finde seine Video ziemlich auf den Punkt. Kann man auch als jemand, der noch nicht soo viel Erfahrung hat schon mal ganz gut umsetzen. Der macht gar nicht viel, aber die Ergebnisse können sich hören lassen, wie ich finde.Und immer wieder der Comp aus dem Metric Halo ChannelStrip....
Hier ein paar Beispiele (es gib noch mehr, das ich auch nicht angeschaut habe):
Drums:
Bass:
Guitar:
Vocals:
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TonyPizza
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Angra sind gerade im Studio und dokumentieren ausführlich, die sind bei Video #23 Die hatten in den 90s ein paar ziemlich geile Sachen gemacht, weiß nicht wie viele original Member da noch dabei sind. Auf jeden Fall produziert nun Jens Bogren! Man sieht ihn auch recht oft in den Videos und alles in seinem Studio. Naja, ich dachte mir erst nicht viel dabei, aber als der angefangen Bass zu spielen wurde ich hellhörig, da geht was.
Wusste auch nicht, dass nun dieser Rhapsody Mensch bei denen singt. Ich kann die Sirene ja echt nicht mehr ertragen, aber performen kann der schon n bisschen. Viell. machen die ja noch ne Instrumental Version vom Album
Die hatten in den 90s ein paar ziemlich geile Sachen gemacht, weiß nicht wie viele original Member da noch dabei sind. Auf jeden Fall produziert nun Jens Bogren! Man sieht ihn auch recht oft in den Videos und alles in seinem Studio. Naja, ich dachte mir erst nicht viel dabei, aber als der angefangen Bass zu spielen wurde ich hellhörig, da geht was.Wusste auch nicht, dass nun dieser Rhapsody Mensch bei denen singt. Ich kann die Sirene ja echt nicht mehr ertragen, aber performen kann der schon n bisschen. Viell. machen die ja noch ne Instrumental Version vom Album
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FIXXXER
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Andaraginga
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Eine Metalsoundfrage, die mich echt interessiert:
Kann man bezüglich Recording und Mixing Parameter benennen, die den Sound eindeutig eher traditionel oder eher modern klingen lassen.
Konkretes Beispiel:
Ich hör ein Stück und denk mir, vom Riffing her müsste das wie Machine Head klingen, tatsächlich klingt es aber als ob Black Sabbath Machine Head nachspielen würden.
Kann man eine Systematik entwickeln, in die man Parameter wie Standardtuning vs. tiefergestimmt, Bass verzerrt vs. unverzerrt, Schlaginstrumente klickig vs. voll, unterschiedliche Lautstärke-Gewichtungen der Instrumente, etc. einordnen kann bezüglich dessen wie viel sie dazu beitragen, den Sound modern oder traditionel klingen zu lassen?
Kann man bezüglich Recording und Mixing Parameter benennen, die den Sound eindeutig eher traditionel oder eher modern klingen lassen.
Konkretes Beispiel:
Ich hör ein Stück und denk mir, vom Riffing her müsste das wie Machine Head klingen, tatsächlich klingt es aber als ob Black Sabbath Machine Head nachspielen würden.
Kann man eine Systematik entwickeln, in die man Parameter wie Standardtuning vs. tiefergestimmt, Bass verzerrt vs. unverzerrt, Schlaginstrumente klickig vs. voll, unterschiedliche Lautstärke-Gewichtungen der Instrumente, etc. einordnen kann bezüglich dessen wie viel sie dazu beitragen, den Sound modern oder traditionel klingen zu lassen?
TonyPizza
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Systematik ist da eher schlecht, es.gibt aber eine ganze Reihe an Aufzählungen was genau auf welchem Album verwendet wurde. Ich muss das mal suchen, poste dann den link. Daraus lässt sich dann einiges ableiten, weil sich die Standards kaum verändert haben.
Bsp. Ein Kollege von mir hat mal bei framus gearbeitet, das war als das cobra topteil in aller.munde war. Naja, diese ganzen Amps sind eigentlich keine neuen Designs, sondern alle mehr oder weniger Rectifier Clones. Also es wird viel überbewertet.
Aber schöne frage, genau dafür ist der thread doch da.
Ok.das ist jetzt ziemlich durcheinander...
Aber noch ein Bsp.
Die ganz alten Drumsamples aus dem ddrum 4 Modul sind wie auch die alesis Module nach wie vor genial um Charakter in den drumsound zu bringen. Die Samples sind halt raw und.vertragen ne gute Portion processing, das können die neuen libraries nicht von sich behaupten
Bsp. Ein Kollege von mir hat mal bei framus gearbeitet, das war als das cobra topteil in aller.munde war. Naja, diese ganzen Amps sind eigentlich keine neuen Designs, sondern alle mehr oder weniger Rectifier Clones. Also es wird viel überbewertet.
Aber schöne frage, genau dafür ist der thread doch da.
Ok.das ist jetzt ziemlich durcheinander...
Aber noch ein Bsp.
Die ganz alten Drumsamples aus dem ddrum 4 Modul sind wie auch die alesis Module nach wie vor genial um Charakter in den drumsound zu bringen. Die Samples sind halt raw und.vertragen ne gute Portion processing, das können die neuen libraries nicht von sich behaupten
Zuletzt bearbeitet:
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Wie nehmt ihr euer Klavier ab? Habt ihr Beispiele?
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